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	<title>Comments on: After Work Beer</title>
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	<link>http://myrtti.fi/blog/2009/07/14/after-work-beer/</link>
	<description>Nerdette ravings</description>
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		<title>By: mike</title>
		<link>http://myrtti.fi/blog/2009/07/14/after-work-beer/comment-page-1/#comment-1794</link>
		<dc:creator>mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 07:03:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://myrtti.fi/blog/?p=693#comment-1794</guid>
		<description>Just came accross this, thanks for an *excellent* phrase to describe _good_ online communities &quot;The After Work Beer - atmosphere&quot; (kind of depends on you having experienced this ;)

Regarding another group joining your space (pub); the analogy still applies, if they are a large group , give them some space (and be prepared to go over and introduce yourself if that is within your personality type) but if they are small and &quot;hovering&quot; around your circle, then welcome them in, and let them join the conversation naturally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just came accross this, thanks for an *excellent* phrase to describe _good_ online communities &#8220;The After Work Beer &#8211; atmosphere&#8221; (kind of depends on you having experienced this ;)</p>
<p>Regarding another group joining your space (pub); the analogy still applies, if they are a large group , give them some space (and be prepared to go over and introduce yourself if that is within your personality type) but if they are small and &#8220;hovering&#8221; around your circle, then welcome them in, and let them join the conversation naturally.</p>
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		<title>By: myrtti</title>
		<link>http://myrtti.fi/blog/2009/07/14/after-work-beer/comment-page-1/#comment-1774</link>
		<dc:creator>myrtti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 17:22:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://myrtti.fi/blog/?p=693#comment-1774</guid>
		<description>yes, I am naive. I live in a dream world where I wish people would treat me as I treat them, especially when in professional surroundings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yes, I am naive. I live in a dream world where I wish people would treat me as I treat them, especially when in professional surroundings.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Clarke</title>
		<link>http://myrtti.fi/blog/2009/07/14/after-work-beer/comment-page-1/#comment-1773</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Clarke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 16:45:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://myrtti.fi/blog/?p=693#comment-1773</guid>
		<description>If you want a frank unbiased exchange of ideas is completely and utterly irrelevant of what and who you are, be you 8 or 80, male or female, man or beast.  If you have the intellect to argue a point constructively then you should be heard.  Extolling the fact that you are a woman in programming is counter productive to what your apparent goal is.

Also your response would imply that you are naive, as to assume that when speaking face to face in real life people ignore all base biological impulses.   Be they any form of attraction or repulsion it is near impossible for any human to ignore all these little opinions, be they your personal appearance or the timbre of your voice.

My point being, if you want perfect equality you are either going to have to deal with an emotionless, soulless robot or have every personal detail ignored and simply be considered an intellectual entity, there is no middle ground.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you want a frank unbiased exchange of ideas is completely and utterly irrelevant of what and who you are, be you 8 or 80, male or female, man or beast.  If you have the intellect to argue a point constructively then you should be heard.  Extolling the fact that you are a woman in programming is counter productive to what your apparent goal is.</p>
<p>Also your response would imply that you are naive, as to assume that when speaking face to face in real life people ignore all base biological impulses.   Be they any form of attraction or repulsion it is near impossible for any human to ignore all these little opinions, be they your personal appearance or the timbre of your voice.</p>
<p>My point being, if you want perfect equality you are either going to have to deal with an emotionless, soulless robot or have every personal detail ignored and simply be considered an intellectual entity, there is no middle ground.</p>
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		<title>By: myrtti</title>
		<link>http://myrtti.fi/blog/2009/07/14/after-work-beer/comment-page-1/#comment-1772</link>
		<dc:creator>myrtti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 15:56:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://myrtti.fi/blog/?p=693#comment-1772</guid>
		<description>Funnily enough, open source is my workplace, and I&#039;m not the only one... And if I objected to them, we&#039;d still have to work together - but how comfortable would we be working together then?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funnily enough, open source is my workplace, and I&#8217;m not the only one&#8230; And if I objected to them, we&#8217;d still have to work together &#8211; but how comfortable would we be working together then?</p>
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		<title>By: Tomasaurus</title>
		<link>http://myrtti.fi/blog/2009/07/14/after-work-beer/comment-page-1/#comment-1771</link>
		<dc:creator>Tomasaurus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 15:45:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://myrtti.fi/blog/?p=693#comment-1771</guid>
		<description>Well, let&#039;s be honest. If you worked with those people and objected to them, you&#039;d probably _not_ spend your afterwork time socializing with them.

Open source is not a workplace, and I hope it stays far away from ever becoming like one</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, let&#8217;s be honest. If you worked with those people and objected to them, you&#8217;d probably _not_ spend your afterwork time socializing with them.</p>
<p>Open source is not a workplace, and I hope it stays far away from ever becoming like one</p>
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		<title>By: myrtti</title>
		<link>http://myrtti.fi/blog/2009/07/14/after-work-beer/comment-page-1/#comment-1770</link>
		<dc:creator>myrtti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 15:41:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://myrtti.fi/blog/?p=693#comment-1770</guid>
		<description>ok, so that part of the example was erraneous, but still it stands.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ok, so that part of the example was erraneous, but still it stands.</p>
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		<title>By: Erigami</title>
		<link>http://myrtti.fi/blog/2009/07/14/after-work-beer/comment-page-1/#comment-1769</link>
		<dc:creator>Erigami</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 14:32:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://myrtti.fi/blog/?p=693#comment-1769</guid>
		<description>During my undergrad I discovered that bars automatically exclude some people. The presence of alcohol on premises dissuaded a number of muslims from attending.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>During my undergrad I discovered that bars automatically exclude some people. The presence of alcohol on premises dissuaded a number of muslims from attending.</p>
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		<title>By: myrtti</title>
		<link>http://myrtti.fi/blog/2009/07/14/after-work-beer/comment-page-1/#comment-1768</link>
		<dc:creator>myrtti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 13:40:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://myrtti.fi/blog/?p=693#comment-1768</guid>
		<description>&gt; On an unrelated note: I think that using the gender specific “nerdette” does not display the gender equality you say you desire. If you wish frank discussion without any biased then I would suggest you use a description that does not state that you are in fact female.

My reasons for pointing out my gender in my blog and in my daily life are to be an example and a role model for others, and to make others comfortable with the fact the community has women in it. I assume the fact I state clearly I&#039;m female SHOULDN&#039;T affect the conversation any more than in a real life discussion when others see me dressed up in pink Emacs t-shirt and jeans wearing my long hair on ponytail and smelling girly. I&#039;m not going to dress up in a burlap sack to hide my personality, identity, interests or boobs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; On an unrelated note: I think that using the gender specific “nerdette” does not display the gender equality you say you desire. If you wish frank discussion without any biased then I would suggest you use a description that does not state that you are in fact female.</p>
<p>My reasons for pointing out my gender in my blog and in my daily life are to be an example and a role model for others, and to make others comfortable with the fact the community has women in it. I assume the fact I state clearly I&#8217;m female SHOULDN&#8217;T affect the conversation any more than in a real life discussion when others see me dressed up in pink Emacs t-shirt and jeans wearing my long hair on ponytail and smelling girly. I&#8217;m not going to dress up in a burlap sack to hide my personality, identity, interests or boobs.</p>
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		<title>By: DivineOmega</title>
		<link>http://myrtti.fi/blog/2009/07/14/after-work-beer/comment-page-1/#comment-1767</link>
		<dc:creator>DivineOmega</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 13:18:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://myrtti.fi/blog/?p=693#comment-1767</guid>
		<description>Thinking about this issue further, perhaps the more immature attitudes seen in some places within open source communities is due to the ever increasing popularity of open source software.

With the popularity and new user-base Ubuntu as a distribution has brought to open-source communities, we are bound to be seeing an increase in users in many differing age groups and maturity. In addition, I believe once Google Chrome OS is released, it may provide a much greater boost to these communities as suddenly many more people become aware of the existance of alternative operating systems.

Not that I think this will be a bad thing. The huge boost will probably bring new interest, new users and indeed more development for Linux-based systems. Undoubtedly if Google Chrome OS takes off, there will likely be much more development for Google Chrome OS initially, and later, other Linux-based operating systems, by both open-source developers and commercial (perhaps proprietary?) developers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thinking about this issue further, perhaps the more immature attitudes seen in some places within open source communities is due to the ever increasing popularity of open source software.</p>
<p>With the popularity and new user-base Ubuntu as a distribution has brought to open-source communities, we are bound to be seeing an increase in users in many differing age groups and maturity. In addition, I believe once Google Chrome OS is released, it may provide a much greater boost to these communities as suddenly many more people become aware of the existance of alternative operating systems.</p>
<p>Not that I think this will be a bad thing. The huge boost will probably bring new interest, new users and indeed more development for Linux-based systems. Undoubtedly if Google Chrome OS takes off, there will likely be much more development for Google Chrome OS initially, and later, other Linux-based operating systems, by both open-source developers and commercial (perhaps proprietary?) developers.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Clarke</title>
		<link>http://myrtti.fi/blog/2009/07/14/after-work-beer/comment-page-1/#comment-1766</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Clarke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 12:48:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://myrtti.fi/blog/?p=693#comment-1766</guid>
		<description>In polite society, people suppress all their little idiosyncrisies in face to face discussion.  They also usually temper the way in which they express their opinion so that they get their point across with minimal argument.  As a rule people do not like conflict, for arguments sake we can just put this down to the old fight-or-flight survival instinct.  Or for a more real world example you would not start shouting and screaming at a random stranger should he do something slightly irritating, because you simply don&#039;t wish to risk getting punched in the face.

There is a mathematical joke that has been circling the internet for some time:

Normal Person + Audience + Anonymity = Unrestrained emotion

On the internet the physical realm is irrelevant.

Anyone who has had experience in online gaming or has ever read the youtube comments section will testify that people do not show the same courtesy on the internet that they do in real life, and why should they? No one knows who they are, where they live, what they look like.  There is zero risk, so why show restraint?  It is impossible to get into trouble.

Even in areas with controls in place, codes of conduct, threats of banning and other punishments, people will still push the limits.  Some will do it as a stress let out, other, more manipulative and sociopathic, people will do it for fun.

I am not saying this is acceptable and by all means call for greater control, though not at the extent of freedom of speech.  The internet is the one realm of true freedom of speech (much to humanities detriment in certain areas) and we should not sacrifice it.

That said, you will never eradicate this behaviour while there is zero accountability, one must deal with it in a way that does cause undue duress.

On an unrelated note: I think that using the gender specific &quot;nerdette&quot; does not display the gender equality you say you desire.  If you wish frank discussion without any biased then I would suggest you use a description that does not state that you are in fact female.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In polite society, people suppress all their little idiosyncrisies in face to face discussion.  They also usually temper the way in which they express their opinion so that they get their point across with minimal argument.  As a rule people do not like conflict, for arguments sake we can just put this down to the old fight-or-flight survival instinct.  Or for a more real world example you would not start shouting and screaming at a random stranger should he do something slightly irritating, because you simply don&#8217;t wish to risk getting punched in the face.</p>
<p>There is a mathematical joke that has been circling the internet for some time:</p>
<p>Normal Person + Audience + Anonymity = Unrestrained emotion</p>
<p>On the internet the physical realm is irrelevant.</p>
<p>Anyone who has had experience in online gaming or has ever read the youtube comments section will testify that people do not show the same courtesy on the internet that they do in real life, and why should they? No one knows who they are, where they live, what they look like.  There is zero risk, so why show restraint?  It is impossible to get into trouble.</p>
<p>Even in areas with controls in place, codes of conduct, threats of banning and other punishments, people will still push the limits.  Some will do it as a stress let out, other, more manipulative and sociopathic, people will do it for fun.</p>
<p>I am not saying this is acceptable and by all means call for greater control, though not at the extent of freedom of speech.  The internet is the one realm of true freedom of speech (much to humanities detriment in certain areas) and we should not sacrifice it.</p>
<p>That said, you will never eradicate this behaviour while there is zero accountability, one must deal with it in a way that does cause undue duress.</p>
<p>On an unrelated note: I think that using the gender specific &#8220;nerdette&#8221; does not display the gender equality you say you desire.  If you wish frank discussion without any biased then I would suggest you use a description that does not state that you are in fact female.</p>
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